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Talk:Widow Anti-Material Rifle
Proper spelling? Are we sure it's anti-material rifle? If it's spelled the same way as it's spelled in real-life, it should be anti-materiel rifle (materiel with an E as opposed to material with an A, as material refers to what something is made out of, while materiel is a term for military equipment). SpartHawg948 05:16, February 2, 2010 (UTC) :Ok, well it appears that someone at BioWare needs to learn their terminology! :P It is spelled anti-material in game, which is incorrect speaking in purely military terms, but if BioWare says it's so, it's so! SpartHawg948 05:24, February 2, 2010 (UTC) ::Something for the trivia section perhaps? You would be educating people at the least :) :::Why not correct the weapon's designation; Bioware is known to jack stuff like nomenclature, spelling, and grammar in the codex; it's in the wiki's policy that these errors are corrected in the Codex page, so why not here? -- Echo Four Delta 03:10, February 6, 2010 (UTC) ::::I say we call it what it's called in-game. If Bioware updates it, then we'll update it. Otherwise, someone might type "anti-material" into the search bar and not find the item, even though they spelled it "right", according to the game. Boter 04:03, February 6, 2010 (UTC) :::::Yeah, we do tend to go with what BioWare says. If it's called anti-material in-game, that's what it is. For all we know, the English language has changed a little bit in that respect in the 170-odd years between now and thenSpartHawg948 10:19, February 6, 2010 (UTC) ::::::Ooh, good justification :) "It's the future!" Boter 21:08, February 6, 2010 (UTC) :::::::Why thank you! The "It's the future" justification: right below "Time Travel" on the list of sci-fi cop-outs and non-explanations! :) SpartHawg948 04:28, February 10, 2010 (UTC) :: I've found this discussion to be quite educational however I have my doubts that this was an accidental change. It's possible or even probable that the change was made to emphasize that this rifle is designed to bypass or destroy all potential defenses and thought "anti-material" sounded better than "anti-everything". Teran 11:38, February 27, 2010 (UTC) :Then why not use the term anti-materiel, which is a real term used for exactly this type of rifle, instead of making up a term that is one letter off from the actual terminology? SpartHawg948 17:06, February 27, 2010 (UTC) :: This game isn't based on the real world, it is based on the world Bioware has created. Saying they misspelled the term simply may not be the case when it is likely they looked at the term and decided to modify it to encompass more in terms of personnel defenses which are often strong against one type of weapon but weak against another. This weapon is strong against all defenses and even on insanity is capable of killing most minion level enemies in a single shot. I think that modern day real world anti-materiel rifles should be mentioned as an obvious inspiration for the Widow however we simply don't have enough data supporting the claim that the spelling was an error rather than an intentional change. Teran 02:10, February 28, 2010 (UTC) :::Actually, many elements of the game are based on the real world. Perfect example- weapons. Assault rifles, shotguns, pistols, sniper rifles, etc. All based off of modern day weapons. You are correct that saying they misspelled may not be the case, but it very well may be the case. The trivia says it's possible, not definite. And as I pointed out, there are numerous facts which suggest this is the case. An anti-materiel rifle is a large, very powerful sniper rifle with a lot of recoil used primarily against vehicles and armored targets. The Widow is a large, very powerful sniper rifle with a lot of recoil which is intended for use "against armored vehicles or krogan.". See the parallels? And if it is an invented term, it is remarkably similar to the actual modern-day term for this tyoe of weapon, and the only difference is one letter that most civilians mess up anyways! We allow trivia with much less supporting evidence than this has. It doesn't say that it was an error, just that it looks like it could be. That is 100% acceptable in a trivia section. SpartHawg948 02:39, February 28, 2010 (UTC) Leave the alpha numeical desingnations out of the name those designate upgrades ex the base widow is the m-98 and the fully upgraded one is the x-98e :Fair enough, but the proper way to move a page is to propose the move here first, not just move the page on your own. Thanks, SpartHawg948 05:29, February 2, 2010 (UTC) ok sory i did not know that and i had started the orgional page on it :) instead of removing them completely i detailed the name changes in the trivia section to help avoid further mistakes as well as to help people identify how far upgraded there widow is i would like to know what it is called with only head shot damage though Though I agree that this is more accurate since the number does change, every other weapon page for ME2 is titled with the original letter and number. Examples: M-76 Revenant, M-9 Tempest', '''M-300 Claymore Heavy Shotgun, M-6 Carnifex Hand Cannon, etc. The Widow is the only different page I've seen so far... it should be changed to keep it uniform. : I've been thinking of proposing that all weapons' page names should actually just be ''Base Model Number and Name ''e.g. '''M-76 Revenant'. Not Revenant, Not M-76 Revenant Light Machine Gun, not Revenant Light Machine Gun and most definitely not S-76c Revenant Light Machine Gun. Right now we have a mixture of model numbers, names, types and roles, e.g. M-300 Claymore Heavy Shotgun, M-22 Eviscerator (a correct ''one), Incisor Rifle, M-97 Viper Sniper Rifle, etc. Because of all the links, I'd create the new correctly named page, transfer the information into that page and create a redirect in the old. Dch2404 12:34, March 5, 2010 (UTC) :: Just as I thought, no comments along the lines of, "ZOMG don't do it, for every page you rename, a puppy will be kicked!!!11one" I'll start making the page names uniform soon... Dch2404 10:11, March 7, 2010 (UTC) :::Can I kick a puppy anyways? :P SpartHawg948 12:11, March 7, 2010 (UTC) High Recoil It clearly states in this weapon's description that no human could fire it without shattering an arm...and yet shepard (i'm an infiltrator) can fire it no problem...what's up with that? Someone please explain. (In response to above comment) Between this and the shotgun for Grunt that says the same thing, I'd say that the special research guns are made for Grunt/Legion respectively, which is also why they needed to be researched, and are only useable by those characters, think about it, Garrus isn't human, and could likely use this rifle, but doesn't, same thing for Thane. My theory is that the researched versions and the version you get for Shepard are different, and modified differently. Legion sends you the specifications for you to make a single prototype rifle for him to use, and prototype research projects would likely not be able to be duplicated for the squad, which is why it only boosts for a single person (like Mordin's omni tool or Jack's biotics). The rifle/shotgun found later for Shepard, likely is a modified version, made for a human to be able to fire it. If needing an excuse as to why they'd be able to, well, perhaps the Collectors obtained the Geth's rifle plans from back in ME, with that, they had the weapons made, and perhaps during their research projects, had traded for humans to test out these guns and what humans could do with them, it's obvious that the Reapers had an interest in humans, and the Collector's "Trading Habits" could have gotten them some humans to test it with, to know what they might be up against in the "best of humans" likely obtaining the shotgun from the Krogan the same way mind you. Jaline 04:31, February 3, 2010 (UTC) (Also in response to the original) Actually, the key word that you missed out is "ordinary", no "ordinary" human can fire it. Shepard isn't exactly ordinary, what with being a Spectre and having cybernetic implants etc... :To clarify further, after waking up from reconstruction and while talking to illusive man, Shepard notes 'I noticed some upgrades'. Also, on Miranda's research log she notes that to speed up the process they moved from plain biological reconstruction to.. I don't remember the exact wording, but basically the hybrid of biological and synthetic, as memory serves. So in short - yes, at that point Shepard isn't exactly 'ordinary human' anymore. Kitsunebi 08:07, February 6, 2010 (UTC) ::Basicly, he's now a cyborg. SilentShadow 10:16, February 6, 2010 (UTC) Candidate for deletion Yes it is on the sniper rifles page, but on it's own page it has a much better description. I say - keep it. --SilentShadow 21:43, February 8, 2010 (UTC) :If you look at the Assault Rifles#Mass Effect 2 and, for.e.g., Geth Pulse Rifle pages, you can see that the former has a brief overview of all the assault rifles available and the latter has a bit more detail including a "Performance" section, which is handy considering the lack of numerical values attributed to damage etc. Of course we could just clutter the main page up with all the information instead, but in any case, I reckon the assault rifles page, as a template for the sniper rifles page, is neater overall. In short, no deletion, just transfer the verbose descriptions from the main page to the individual page. 00:22, February 9, 2010 (UTC) Indeed. Given that the Sniper Rifles page no longer contains anywhere near the info on the rifle that this page does, I see no need to delete. SpartHawg948 12:21, February 9, 2010 (UTC) I don't think Anti-Material is a typo... Rather it's a fiction name for a rifle which works with Anti-Material slugs... :Not familiar with Anti-Material slugs. Any chance you could elaborate on what those might be? The reason I added the typo bit is because this rifle has all the characteristics of an Anti-Materiel Rifle (large, powerful, intended for use against hardened targets such as armored vehicles and krogan, single shot, which is a characteristic of most, but not all, AMRs, including some of the most familiar), it ''looks remarkably similar to Anti-Materiel rifles in use today, and it's one letter off from the current designation for this type of weapon, and it's one of the more common spelling errors civilians make when using military terms (material vs materiel). Seems like ample justification to me. SpartHawg948 04:26, February 10, 2010 (UTC) :::I'll just say it: it's pretty obvious the Widow is based on or at least influenced by the M82 Barrett Anti-Materiel Rifle firing the 0.50 BMG high calibre round, whose role is to take out armoured targets. Materiel is not a commonly-used word, it is pretty French (matériel) and as already said, it is essentially military terminology. Even on the Call of Duty Wikia (proper military games with proper military advisors), their M82 Barrett article has had to link to the main wikipedia article to prevent "vandalism" from misinformed people, who refuse to accept materiel is a legitimate word. Also I never came across any canon information about "anti-material slugs," did I miss that somewhere? Performance I don't really understand how it is written there currently, but from my experience as an infiltrator: *Fire Rate: Low *Fire Mode: Single-Shot *Accuracy: Pin-point *Recoil: High *Damage to Shields: Low *Damage to Biotic Barriers: Low *Damage to Armor: V.High *Damage to Health: High *Ammo Capacity: 1 / 12 (13 via armor upgrade) --SilentShadow 23:30, February 9, 2010 (UTC) ::Things move pretty fast, it has just been discovered that the numerical values for damage have been extracted here. From what I'm seeing in your descriptions, there are damage multipliers being applied to the base damage of 368.3 depending upon the target's protection or lack of. Comparative testing with ordinal values such as high, moderate, and low is not necessary for damage anymore because we can now get proper hard numbers. Check the M-97 Talk page too. -Unregistered Had some spare time, so I made some calculations. All the damage modifiers are +50% armor damage, +50% headshot damage, +50% damage, +75% from tactical cloak and +70% from Armor Piercing ammo. If I'm not completely wrong, this would bump the damage from 368 to 2928 agains Armored target headshot, without taking into account the initial headshot bonus damage. Now that is one hell of a rifle. JohnEdwa 21:07, February 10, 2010 (UTC) : Actually I think it's 1085 damage, the percentage is counted from the base value. 0,5 + 0,5 + 0,5 + 0,75 + 0,7 = 2,95 * 368 = 1085,6 --SilentShadow 21:49, February 10, 2010 (UTC) ::You need to swap commas and decimal points for numbers e.g. "1,085.6" is correct in English, "1.085,6" is not correct. Anyway those are the obvious damage multipliers from the sniper rifle upgrades. Are there hidden bonuses too? From what I've understood (I might be wrong though) e.g. SMGs ALWAYS gets a bonus to damage versus shields, even if you don't upgrade the SMGs with Phasic Jacketing - upgrading with Phasic Jacketing just makes SMGs even more damaging to shields. The damage bonuses could look something like this: ::*Innate Damage Modifiers for M-98 Widow ::**Damage to Armor: Bonus +75% (made-up number) ::**Damage to Health: None (made-up number) ::**Damage to Shields: Penalty -50% (made-up number) ::**Damage to Barriers: Penalty -50% (made-up number) : ::: If you want, you can also add in the obvious modifiers from Tungsten Jacket, Combat Scanner, Scram Pulsar, Tactical Cloak, etc, it could look something like this: ::*Other Damage Modifiers ::**Tungsten Jacket: +50% ::**Combat Scanner: +50% (headshot only) ::**Scram Pulsar: +10%-50% ::**Tactical Cloak: +20%-75% ::**Armor-Piercing Ammo: etc... : ::: However I am not a fan of these "Other Damage Modifiers" because they are obvious from reading their individual pages. If you want to add up all the possible modifiers to get the maximum damage, I suggest putting it into the Player Notes section. - Unregistered Also, ammo per clip is always 1 if the clip was dropped by an enemy, if it was in the map from the start then it will most likely give 1 ammo for the first time and 2 for every time it will respawn. I've wrote about that in my walkthrough as far as I can remember... --SilentShadow 21:56, February 10, 2010 (UTC) Haestrom "The Widow can also be acquired on Haestrom in the room once you get past the pillar. This is onlhy available on Hardcore or Insanity difficulty settings." Has anyone approved this? There's no geth sniper rifle there, I was there not long ago and searched every corner for the sake of my walkthrough. I was playing on Insanity and didn't find any other weapons then the geth pulse rifle at the end and the tempest SMG in the middle. --SilentShadow 14:45, February 11, 2010 (UTC) : I've played the game 3 times including hardcore and insanity, and I've missed the Widow 3 times at Heastrom, if i recall, I only ever found the "Geth Rifle" in there. Sounds to me like the person who wrote that has gotten the Widow mixed up with the Geth Pulse Rifle. Player Notes Regarding the following quotes: "It is the most powerful sniper rifle in the game and, when upgraded and augmented by powers such as the Assassin's Cloak, Warp Ammo or Armor Piercing Ammo, has the ability to kill most enemies in one shot." and similarly, "Awesome damage, great accuracy and more spare ammo than Mantis make it an excellent choice for one hit killer sniper players." I'd like to know whether the difficulty level of play should be stated when making statements like this. I am currently doing an insanity playthrough and have only encountered Husks where this type of 'one shot kill' could be possible. -Andaryn 20:30, February 15, 2010 (UTC) : A lot of people like to write stuff like, "Awesome damage" and "One shot, one kill" and so on, not realising whether their statements are actually true or applicable to the audience (I removed the trivia statement about the Widow having the most damage of any standard weapon when the numbers were released and the Claymore was found to do 400 base damage). You are right in that they don't specify their particular variables (difficulty level, which enemy they are shooting at, whether the rifle is upgraded, etc). For the first quote, it originally used to say: : ''"...It is the best sniper in the game, due to it's damage-to-ammo ratio. Along with the Infiltrator's Assassin's Cloak, it kills most enemies in one shot even on insanity, making it rather easy." '' : This should confuse you even more. I think it was me who modified it to include the ammo and upgrade info to give the statement more credibility (I don't like deleting people's comments but rather try to improve them) because at the time, I was playing Infiltrator on Hardcore, and was not getting the one-shot, one kill effect using the Assassination Cloak alone - I thought maybe it was just me. Dch2404 13:27, February 16, 2010 (UTC) :: I re-read those statements and the only one that really has universal relevance is the one about 1 or 2 shots per clip pickup. Maybe you can help complete this new statement (also based on some comments from above performance talk): :: "The Widow is capable of one-shot kills at any range. To do this requires a clean headshot with as many damage modifiers as possible including: Assassination Cloak, Armor-Piercing Ammo, the Scram Pulsar upgrades, the Combat Scanner, Tungsten Sabot jacket, and/or the Kuwashii visor. Note that the one-shot, one kill policy will only apply to lower ranked enemies such as ____________ and will vary depending on the difficultiy level." Dch2404 14:01, February 16, 2010 (UTC)